Back to Ambassadorial Speeches - Ambassador Zalman Shoval

Interview with Ambassador Shoval on the FOX Morning News
Washington, D.C. - December 18, 1992

BRIAN WILSON: Joining us this morning to discuss the situation is Israeli Ambassador Zalman Shoval. Thank you for being here, Mr. Ambassador.

ISRAELI AMBASSADOR ZALMAN SHOVAL: Good morning, Brian.

Q: Whole list of things that I want to talk to you about. First, this deportation. As we understand it, right now hundreds of Muslim fundamentalists are out wandering between, in this no-man's land, between Lebanon and Israel after Israel deported them. Was that action necessary and if so, why?

AMB. SHOVAL: Well, you know, that's the dilemma of any democratic country, of United States, Israel and England. How does a democratic society defend itself against those who want to subvert it to kill people, fundamentalists, fascists or whatever? In England, for instance, they have the death penalty. Israel does not want to pry the death penalty. We think that this is a more humane, probably more efficient way to get rid of people who are terrorists.

And do you know that a few days ago a Sergeant Toledano was brutally murdered? He was strangled to death. He had no right to appeal to anybody. We have to take care of our population, who are under the threat of violence, by the way, not just Jewish Israelis, although the Hamas wants to destroy Israel and the peace process; also Palestinians, also Druize (phonetic), Arabs.

We have to take certain steps. We thought that was the best step to take.

Q: I guess the question that would come from an outsider looking in is was it an overreaction? I mean after all, this is 400 Palestinians, fundamentalists who are being moved out of the area. Did the actions that were taken against the state of Israel require that kind of reaction?

AMB. SHOVAL: Well, people were killed for the last few weeks. In the last two weeks alone, five or six people were killed. They were threatening--Dr. Abdul Shafi spoke about the peace process, the head of the Palestinian delegation here in Washington. He knows very well that these people from Hamas want to kill the peace process, and that's why they do all these things.

A government has to take sometimes drastic actions. Now, 400 or 350 or 450, I wouldn't know, but these people are part of the infrastructure of that organization, which is much more worrisome sometimes than the guy who actually throws the hand grenade.

Q: Looking at the big picture right now, the peace process is in jeopardy. There's no doubt about that.

AMB. SHOVAL: I don't think so.

Q: You do not think so?

AMB. SHOVAL: No. Look, it may stop, it may stall. Anyway, the next round is not planned before February. But everybody in this peace process, certainly the Palestinians and Israel, but everybody else knows how big a stake we have in that. I mean, the Palestinians would be the main gainers from peace, and they know that these Hamas people, who are a minority--most of the Palestinians want to come to some sort of arrangement--we won't let the Hamas people kill the peace process.

Q: So you don't think that this action by Israel is going to have any long- term effect on the peace negotiations?

AMB. SHOVAL: I don't think so. No, I don't think so.

Q: There was some risk in taking this action that that might actually happen.

AMB. SHOVAL: Well, you know, a German philosopher said not taking risks is dangerous. And we had to take that risk.

Q: Do you have any concerns about the future of U.S.- Israel relations under the new administration that will be taking office in January?

AMB. SHOVAL: No, I don't think so. I have no concerns. We are two very close allies. President-elect Clinton issued a statement on this very thing yesterday and I think it was well balanced, it was very evenly balanced. He recognized the pressure Israel was under, the Israeli government, the Israeli population. He came out against this--it's not deportation, by the way--a temporary removal of these people up to two years. They have the right to appeal. But basically, he supported our worries. He understood our worries, our frustrations, I would say, at the violence going on against us.

Q: But he does seem to take a harder line concerning Jewish settlements.

AMB. SHOVAL: Well, I think he has taken so far the same line, more or less, as the out-going administration has, and that is not the issue right now. You know that that murder against Sergeant Toledano was done in Israel, was committed in Israel proper, and the Israeli government of the day has, in itself, on itself decided not to continue with settlement-building. So this is not going to be a burning issue in the next few years.

Q: The deportees are now kind of in a no-man's land. They can't go into Lebanon. They can't come back into Israel. What is going to happen to those people? Is there no humanitarian concern here?

AMB. SHOVAL: Well, there is a humanitarian concern, but we are not talking about innocent civilians. We are talking about terrorists, and I certainly hope that that problem will be solved within a day or two. We didn't send these people to Devil's Island or to Siberia. We sent them into a neighboring Arab country, a country of the same people as they are, and I think they should be made welcome over there. I hope they will not become political hard ball sort of thing for the politicians to play, and I hope that problem will be settled.

Q: Israel Ambassador Zalman Shoval, thanks for being here this morning on the Fox Morning News.