Ambassador Itamar Rabinovich on CNN International on Operation "Grapes of Wrath" April 11, 1996

         AMBASSADOR ITAMAR RABINOVICH ON OPERATION "GRAPES OF WRATH" 
                              CNN International 
                        April 11, 1996 - 6:43 p.m. EST 


BERNARD SHAW, Anchor: Hizbullah guerrillas fire rockets at northern Israel. 
Israel responds with air strikes against Hizbullah targets in Lebanon.  And 
now, Israeli residents near the Lebanese border are running for cover, fearing 
a new round of retaliation.  Joining us now to discuss the escalating warfare 
between Israel and Lebanon, the Israel ambassador to the United States, Itamar 
Rabinovich.

Mr. Ambassador, what, in your judgment, is the solution to this conflict?  

ITAMAR RABINOVICH, Israeli Ambassador to U.S.: It's the ultimate solution and 
the real solution to this conflict is peace.  We are in the midst of a peace 
process.  Sometimes, it's difficult to remember that fact, given the many, 
many attacks against the peace process.  But we are in a peace process.  
Negotiations with Lebanon have been suspended by the Lebanese a long time ago, 
but we are negotiating with Syria, and we expect that a political solution 
with Syria would result also in a political solution with Lebanon, and that is 
a solution, but that, of course, is for the longer range.  In the immediate 
range, our main purpose is to put an end to these Hizbullah attacks.

BERNARD SHAW: What should be Syria's role in this?

ITAMAR RABINOVICH: Syria holds real sway in Lebanon.  There is a Lebanese 
state and there is a Lebanese government, and Iran meddles in the affairs of 
Lebanon, but the real power in Lebanon is Syria.  The Syrians have exercised 
some influence, and we think that they should exercise full influence in order 
to bring an end to this.  They can do it.  BERNARD SHAW: CNN's Walter Rodgers 
reported earlier on World View that Damascus Radio calls your country's raids 
'dangerous and unjust.' Other than that, Syria has had no official response.  
Does that surprise you?

ITAMAR RABINOVICH: No.  On the face of it, this is the Syrian position - that 
this is a form of legitimate resistance, but over the past few months, and in 
fact, over the past few years, every so often, the Syrians have exercised 
limited influence on Hizbullah to restrain its activities.  Over the past few 
weeks, this has been to no avail.  You mentioned the Israeli residents going 
down to shelters.  This is not the first time that this has happened in the 
past few weeks, and the last salvo of Katyusha rockets was really unprovoked 
and Hizbullah, apparently at the Iranian orders, has decided to challenge us 
and the peace process directly.  The Syrian channel is not effective, and we 
had to take matters into our own hands.

BERNARD SHAW: And I infer from that that this violence is going to continue - 
as long as one side attacks the other, the other side will retaliate?

ITAMAR RABINOVICH: I don't call our action retaliation.  I think we would like 
to put an end to this, and certainly, we cannot tolerate the situation where 
Hizbullah, at will, launches rockets into northern Israel.  So this is not 
retaliation.  This is an attempt to put an end to it.

BERNARD SHAW: Some observers speculate that what is going on here is related 
to politics within your country.  There have been charges by the Likud Party 
that Prime Minister Peres is weak.  The speculation being that the prime 
minister has decided to retaliate here to show that he is not weak.

ITAMAR RABINOVICH: I don't think this is the case, because I think we have 
waited, we have been biting our lips for a very long time.  And there is a 
point at which you lose your credibility, you lose your deterrence.  We have 
supporters inside Lebanon who expect to see us acting.  There are 
repercussions with regard to the Palestinians as to what happens.  Hizbullah 
could be a source of inspiration for Palestinians.  There are many, many good 
reasons for acting, and the fact is that the shoe is on the other foot.  That 
is to say that the government has restrained for a very long, and has acted, I 
think, when we crossed a red line.

BERNARD SHAW: And finally, as we saw in the report that preceded us in this 
interview, the speculation on the part of some people in the Middle East that 
these air strikes by your country might actually embolden Hizbullah into 
further acts.

ITAMAR RABINOVICH: As a matter of fact, we are not limiting ourselves to air 
strikes.  Helicopters acted, and we are not saying that it will be limited to 
air strikes if Hizbullah continues.  No, this is the argument that we always 
hear, that you're playing to the opposition's hand by responding, but what is 
the alternative?  If we sit with you our hands folded, will Hizbullah cease 
its operations, or will it be even more emboldened by Israeli passivity?  This 
is not something we like to do, and as I said earlier, we have waited long 
enough, but a powerful response at this point, I think, is the response that 
is called for.

BERNARD SHAW: And very quickly, did I just hear a possible hint of the use of
 ground troops by Israel, if necessary?

ITAMAR RABINOVICH: We are not threatening with anything, we are not ruling out 
anything.  The prime minister said today that we'll make our judgment as the 
situation unfolds.  We are not making any commitments and we are not making 
any statements.

BERNARD SHAW: Ambassador Rabinovich, thank you very much for joining us.

ITAMAR RABINOVICH: Thank you very much.

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